freibiergesicht:

velocidarling:

I actually sincerely appreciate the fact that you posted a ton of resources.  I’ve read the majority of these arguments before, but I skimmed these again.

I also think it’s a different conversation when I’m talking to a queer person as opposed to someone on the ace spectrum who has decided they are queer BECAUSE right now we’re discussing things in-community.

I think queer is complicated even strictly within the queer community.  Who has had queer thrown at them?  Not every queer person.  Many queers, due to age or class background or educational level, are not comfortable with the reclamation of queer.  Saltmarshhag brilliantly posts a lot on this.  The fact that a certain branch of the academy brought the word back in the way it did 

— queer theory, which did/does work to reclaim queer by valorizing and endorsing what is queer, but part of the work it did/is doing is to also mark anything polyvalent, outside, marginal/ized and Other as queer.  So there was a weird academic definition imported into the word which has now been popularized and appropriated further — since a lot of queer readings right now don’t address what I would call “issues of queerness” (ie, same gender / non-binary gender attraction, love, sex, desire, etc) —

doesn’t change the fact that “queer” historically and NOW is used against people who

a. don’t conform to gender expectations — which, in a heterosexist society means you must not also fuck the right kind of people.

b. is visibly queer (however that is coded and received or perceived).

So, here’s the deal.

If YOU personally, one queer person, are happy to extend the label of queer in its more academic/theoretical way to people who are on the ace spectrum (or anything else in that line, like poly/kink), that’s generous of ya.

But what you and everyone else still haven’t answered to my satisfaction is the very real damage that’s done by pretending that the ace community suffers anywhere near the same kind of systematic stigmatization, violence and marginalization queer people do, by pretending that ace people are ever called queer as an insult (“frigid,” “prude,” “cold bitch,” I can see these things being mobilized in misogynistic and painful ways — and, yeah, there’s a constant process of pathologizing people who don’t have enough sex, like men who have lower sexual drives, WHICH IS LITERALLY HOMOPHOBIA AT WORK BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT PERFORMING HETEROSEXUAL MASCULINITY AND THUS THREATEN THAT WHOLE CONSTRUCT.  That’s not ACEPHOBIA.  That’s HOMOPHOBIA.  For women it’s sexism which obviously helps to construct heteroparadise too etc etc etc)

Basically, what I’m saying here is: yeah, fine, open the gates.  But don’t get self-righteous when people who have been hurt by the influx of new travelers, partly because there’s a mass adoption of sex negativity and misogyny by said travelers and partly because it makes it even more difficult to discuss the on-going challenges of homophobia which result in homelessness, death, unemployment, self-loathing, etc

well, basically

don’t get self-righteous when queer people shut the gates back down.

And I’m not sure how much of a right anyone has to radically and ahistorically change the definition and composition of our community.  Especially when it’s hurting the community.

Basically!  Like what Saltmarshy and Zincfingers and some others have been saying lately!

Identity is not sacred!

The label of the identity is not even the most important part!

It’s the material conditions which generate the need for that identity!

The end!

i love this post so much

(Source: sentientcitizen)